Car Wars / Road Warrior

What's next?
go0gleplex
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Postby go0gleplex » Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:19 pm

Was wondering if you were gonna respond Kevin. :D

d10...can do. :)

Not thrilled with charts myself...or predictable damage patterns.

Speed assignment...hmmm....so figure a top speed for the vehicle, eh? 'Safe' speed is more dependent upon the road being traveled. (I do road design for a livin. ;) ) Friction, grade, curvature...and speed are all the key components there. Have to think on this but I'm sure somethin can be brainstormed. :)

Yes...initiative system. :D
"Our past shapes us, our choices define us, our desires propel us, and those we let into our hearts give us the strength to persevere even when our dreams lay shattered behind us." - me

underling
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Postby underling » Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:22 pm

go0gleplex wrote:Speed assignment...hmmm....so figure a top speed for the vehicle, eh? 'Safe' speed is more dependent upon the road being traveled. (I do road design for a livin. ;) ) Friction, grade, curvature...and speed are all the key components there. Have to think on this but I'm sure somethin can be brainstormed. :)

Actually, what I'm envisioning is a universal set of maneuvers available to every vehicle. each maneuver would then have a safe speed.
Something similar to the following:

Maneuver Spd(mph) Effect
Drift 80 ½ base width slide left or right
Steep drift 50 Up to one base width slide left or right
45 deg turn 50 Up to 45 degree turn left or right
90 deg turn 20 Up to 90 degree turn left or right
135 deg turn 10 Up to 135 degree turn left or right
Bootlegger (1) 180 degree turn
Donut 0 (2) Turn to any facing
Brake slam (3) Stops vehicle

(1) The bootlegger reverse is a special maneuver that results in the vehicle facing 180 degrees opposite the direction of travel before the maneuver. It may only be attempted when a vehicle is traveling between 30 – 50 mph.

(2) A donut is simply a car spinning in place to face a new direction. It may only be attempted when a vehicle has come to a stop, and is automatically successful.

(3) A brake slam is an emergency action, is only attempted when a car wants to come to a complete stop in a hurry. As such, it may be attempted by a vehicle traveling at any speed.

Now, these safe speeds may be influenced by the type of road surface, etc., in the form of basic modifiers to a maneuver test. But the safe speed for each maneuver would be independent of the vehicle attempting the maneuver. Where the differences of each vehicle type would come into play is with a maneuver rating. So your basic motorcycle would have a much "better" maneuver rating than our loveable tractor-trailer.
:)
Kevin

go0gleplex
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Postby go0gleplex » Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:03 pm

I'll have to digest that for a bit Kevin. *chuckle* But I think I agree in theory where you're going.
"Our past shapes us, our choices define us, our desires propel us, and those we let into our hearts give us the strength to persevere even when our dreams lay shattered behind us." - me

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Postby underling » Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:48 pm

go0gleplex wrote:I'll have to digest that for a bit Kevin. *chuckle* But I think I agree in theory where you're going.

Okay, so while I'm on a roll, I'll take it one step farther.
All of the following is purely hypothetical, so don't get let any suspect numbers throw you off.
And I don't know anything yet about your 3dx system, so I'll make some assumptions.
For funsies, let's go one step "better" than a fixed die system (3dx), and assume an xd10 system. Vehicles get a number of maneuvering dice equal to xd10, where "x" can range from 1 to 5. These dice are rolled when attempting a maneuver at above the safe speed. For example, using the speeds from the post above, a sedan is traveling at 60 mph and wants to attempt a steep drift (safe speed 50mph). This necessitates a maneuvering test. All tests have a base 6+ target number, with one success is generally enough to pass a test. So if you're rolling one d10, you've got a 50% chance of successfully attempting the maneuver.
Modifiers to a control test might add to the number of successes that must be rolled in order to successfully make a maneuver. For example, for a steep drift, the speeds might be as follows:

I'll assume increments of 10 mph for units of movement...
50 mph or less = automatic pass
60 mph = one success required
70 to 80 mph = two successes required
90 to 110 mph = three successes required
120 to 150 mph = four successes required
160+ = automatic crash

So let's say our sedan has 3d10 for its maneuvering dice, is traveling at 70 mph, and wants to steep drift. That is 20 mph over the safe speed, which necessitates a maneuver test with two successes. The dice are rolled, with one success coming up, meaning the sedan has failed by one success.
Now let's look at the consequences...
I propose some sort of step reduction for control: for starters how about in control, partial control, shaky control, and lost control (skidding or spinning). I've shamelessly borrowed this from my racing game.
:)
So from the above example, the sedan has lost one step of control, and is now in partial control. this has no effect other than being closer to a lost control status. And each maneuver attempted at above the safe speeds will necessitate a maneuver test, which puts a vehicle at risk.
this control can be regained to some degree at the end of each turn.
To further customize vehicle ability, the base target number 6+ could vary from vehicle to vehicle. So a cycle might have 4d10, with a target number of 5+. This would represent an extremely maneuverable vehicle.
These are just some initial thoughts.
Kevin

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Postby go0gleplex » Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:02 pm

Sounds good. Maybe have the consequence of the partial control be either a loss of a die...so if the sedan who failed its control roll is now only partially in control, instead of 3d10 it only has 2d10 until control is regained.

The driver skill could be a modifier pool to the dice rolled, so a Driver +2 could add 2 to any one die or 1 to any two dice rolled.
"Our past shapes us, our choices define us, our desires propel us, and those we let into our hearts give us the strength to persevere even when our dreams lay shattered behind us." - me

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Postby underling » Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:42 pm

go0gleplex wrote:Sounds good. Maybe have the consequence of the partial control be either a loss of a die...so if the sedan who failed its control roll is now only partially in control, instead of 3d10 it only has 2d10 until control is regained.
The driver skill could be a modifier pool to the dice rolled, so a Driver +2 could add 2 to any one die or 1 to any two dice rolled.

I thought about having a dice pool also.
And I'm definitely in favor of trying that.
I just didn't know if others would think that'd be too fiddly.
Although another way you could do this is have the vehicle have a maneuver value, which sets the target number for maneuver tests. So the lower the number the better.
Then on top of that you could have your pool of d10s, which represent the driver's ability over a turn's worth of time. So a 1d10 driver isn't going to be able to attempt nearly as many maneuvers (like all of 1 :)), or be certain of successfully completing that maneuver, as say a 4d10 or 5d10 driver.
The idea then would be that that pool refreshes at the start of each turn.
But again, it boils down to whether or not you want to track dice expenditure for each vehicle over a turn.
I don't have a problem with that, especially if the design intent is to have players running from 1 to 3 or 4 vehicles.
But others might see it as fiddly.
Kevin

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Postby go0gleplex » Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:45 pm

I think if the dice pool probably is a bit too fiddly. Having a point modifier pool for the driver to use in influencing success would reflect his skill in pulling the maneuver off...any idiot can try to bootleg at 100mph...but only a true master can pull it out as it goes south. ;) I like the idea of having the car assigned the MR dice...which seems to model the agility of the vehicle well with the maneuver having a number of required successes. It just seems to intuitively keep things in a perspective scale IMO. :)
"Our past shapes us, our choices define us, our desires propel us, and those we let into our hearts give us the strength to persevere even when our dreams lay shattered behind us." - me

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Side Swipe

Postby underling » Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:37 pm

How about Side Swipe as a working title?
I came up with this a year or so ago. I'm not set on it by any means, but thought it'd be nice to have something in place so we don't have to refer to the game as "the stupid Car Wars game."
:)
I did a few calculations a while back, and thought the following might work for game scale.
I was assuming Matchbox or Hot Wheels scale for cars, although you could certainly use Micro Machines.
If we assume Matchbox or Hot Wheels are being used, they're roughly 1/64 scale. This means that one inch on the tabletop equals approximately fifteen feet. If we use two second game turns, this means that a movement of one inch would be equivalent to 5 miles per hour.
Or a vehicle traveling at 60 mph would move 12 inches.
I think this scales nicely for most player's tables. My guess is that for a lot of scenarios the speeds will actually be slower than this, and so movement distances will be shorter. I'm guessing that combat speeds would really be more in the 20 to 40 mph range for most urban (non-highway) scenarios.
Any thoughts on the above?
Kevin

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Postby go0gleplex » Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:19 pm

(Up to my butt in alligators at work...so sorry if I sound curt. :))

Title: Works for me. :)

Scale...Hotwheels, no problem. Timing though I would use 5 second turns minimum. It takes most folks an average of 2 seconds to react in an emergency braking situation. Default reaction time for most computations is 3 seconds. So 5 would give a couple extra for any targeting and such involved.

Besides...there's always the 'speed freaks' who like 150mph races...;) *chuckles* It would keep 'em on the table at least a turn or two. :lol:
"Our past shapes us, our choices define us, our desires propel us, and those we let into our hearts give us the strength to persevere even when our dreams lay shattered behind us." - me

underling
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Postby underling » Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:05 pm

go0gleplex wrote:Scale...Hotwheels, no problem. Timing though I would use 5 second turns minimum. It takes most folks an average of 2 seconds to react in an emergency braking situation. Default reaction time for most computations is 3 seconds. So 5 would give a couple extra for any targeting and such involved.
Besides...there's always the 'speed freaks' who like 150mph races...;) *chuckles* It would keep 'em on the table at least a turn or two. :lol:

The only problem I see with 5 second turns (and trying to keep the game *somewhat* scaled correctly, is that the movement rates get pretty large. A speed of 60 mph, again assuming my numbers are correct, would equate to 30 inches of movement. And 150 mph would equate to a movment of 75 inches.
Or basically one pass on a normal table.
:)
I don't have a problem with longer turns, but I would like to keep the game in the ballpark of being realistically scaled.
Kevin


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