Car Wars / Road Warrior

What's next?
go0gleplex
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Postby go0gleplex » Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:18 am

In a way Bren...that's what'll be happening. Only it will be related to engine and chassis size. So a '72 Mustang with a 502 8-cyl may accelerate 2 units per turn and that old Dodge van with the 6-cyl will only accelerate 1 unit per turn. The math is needed to establish the rate to stay within the established movement scale however.

If you want physics...well...you have 1/3 the tire traction on ice (with studs) that you do on wet pavement with average tires. :P another amazing fact from the peanut department. :lol: :wink:
"Our past shapes us, our choices define us, our desires propel us, and those we let into our hearts give us the strength to persevere even when our dreams lay shattered behind us." - me

Ironchicken
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Postby Ironchicken » Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:02 pm



This has been updated.

It should now be a playable at least 'beer and pretzels' game.

No promises my ramblings make sense :shock:

jimbeau
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Postby jimbeau » Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:31 pm

Basic Impression:
Seems fiddly, but I haven't played so I can't really make that assessment. I know that there seem to be a lot of situations where I am going to be expected to multiply on the fly and re-roll, etc. Again, that's an initial impression and I will probably change my mind after playing.

Speed:
What difference does it make what the car length is? I understand that you're trying for "universal" but the de facto standard for toy cars is matchbox scale, so make that the standrard so I don't have to multiply 5 by 1.5 every time I want to go 50mph. Plus, the matchbox scale isn't even correct from car to car in the line so you're trying to build a coherent system out of a random scale.

Accel and Braking:
um, braking table? 10-20, 20-30, 20-50?

How about Handling Loss is MV/2 round up?
i.e.
10-20: 1
30-40: 2
50-60: 3
etc

I do not understand what the speed table is used for unless it's a max accel rate then I do understand and would expect that to be part of car construction, rather than based off the size of the engine. i.e. if I want a car with a top speed of 200 and an accel of 1, I should be able to choose it. If I want a car that has a top speed of 80 and an accell of 6 I should be able to pick that. And, as has been said, let the engineers and physicists do their job and build it.

Maneuvers:
there's no difference between drift and align is there?

Driver skill is a neat idea.

I don't like the tables for out of control, bt I can't think of a better way to do it.

I could care less about pedestrians. they are crunchy targets. Riding on the running boards is idiotic, and should have a higher penalty.

Shooting:
Too complicated, at first glance. I'd hate to have to go through a table of modifiers every time I take a shot at someone. That's so 80s :)

Penetration:
What kind of armor is there going to be is the weapons all have PEN modifiers (+5 pen? wow that's a lot)

< Armor: No Pen
= Armor: part. pen
> armor: pen
2x Armor: catastrophic

That table is just plain icky

Ramming: ok

Weapons:
Wow, um, why can't I just choose my range, choose my rof/pen and then add specials?

what the heck is load?

Gangers:
Whay can't I just pick a number?

Gang design and car design:
This is really nice. simple and easy to use. but where's the square root? :)

Conclusion:
obviously a rough draft and needs extensive playtesting to ensure the concepts are going to translate. I don't think I can play based on the rules I see, but I will try.

Hopefully this weekenfd will offer me the opportunity... I may have some extra time. (yay)

Don't take this wrong: I will play test it and I see the need for a car combat game as good as starmada.

underling
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Postby underling » Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:21 pm

Ironchicken wrote:

This has been updated.
It should now be a playable at least 'beer and pretzels' game.
No promises my ramblings make sense :shock:

I'll try to take a look at this over the next few days and add some comments. Although at a quick first glance I think I agree with some of Jim's comments.
Kevin

Ironchicken
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Postby Ironchicken » Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:19 pm

First thanks for the comments. I will take on board and see if I can correct. They point out many valid faults and ommissions the first and most obvious is that I forgot to describe car armour :oops:

I am giving my reasoning below and not being defensive :lol:

jimbeau wrote:Basic Impression:
Seems fiddly, but I haven't played so I can't really make that assessment. I know that there seem to be a lot of situations where I am going to be expected to multiply on the fly and re-roll, etc. Again, that's an initial impression and I will probably change my mind after playing.


I kept it to 2-5 times table. I thought this would be simple enough. Because cars will have handling around 6 or 7 then you should not be doing all that higher math. at 70MPH or less you either multiply by 1 or 2. (3 if you have lost a wheel). I am not convinced it will be that hard.

Speed:
What difference does it make what the car length is? I understand that you're trying for "universal" but the de facto standard for toy cars is matchbox scale, so make that the standrard so I don't have to multiply 5 by 1.5 every time I want to go 50mph. Plus, the matchbox scale isn't even correct from car to car in the line so you're trying to build a coherent system out of a random scale.


Car length was the unit origionally discussed earlier in the thread for scaling. I used it because i thought it a good idea. Could easily be changed
Accel and Braking:
um, braking table? 10-20, 20-30, 20-50?


:oops: will fix
How about Handling Loss is MV/2 round up?
i.e.
10-20: 1
30-40: 2
50-60: 3
etc


will use

I do not understand what the speed table is used for unless it's a max accel rate then I do understand and would expect that to be part of car construction, rather than based off the size of the engine. i.e. if I want a car with a top speed of 200 and an accel of 1, I should be able to choose it. If I want a car that has a top speed of 80 and an accell of 6 I should be able to pick that. And, as has been said, let the engineers and physicists do their job and build it.


I was working on a mad-max ganger type game. I wanted to start with something that gave the right feel. cars accellerate a lot more at low speeds than high. A Porche does 0-60 a lot quicker than it does 60-100. I gave a set of basic engine/gearboxess and their performance. This seemed the most appropriate approach.

Maneuvers:
there's no difference between drift and align is there?


Align can only be done at the end of a car's turn to help with aiming. Drift is an in turn maneouvre

Driver skill is a neat idea.


I like it too 8)

I don't like the tables for out of control, bt I can't think of a better way to do it.


I know what you mean it was KISS

I could care less about pedestrians. they are crunchy targets. Riding on the running boards is idiotic, and should have a higher penalty.


Agreed but it may be important in a game so they needed rules

Shooting:
Too complicated, at first glance. I'd hate to have to go through a table of modifiers every time I take a shot at someone. That's so 80s :)


Less modifiers and lower shooting skill... got it :lol:

Penetration:
What kind of armor is there going to be is the weapons all have PEN modifiers (+5 pen? wow that's a lot)

< Armor: No Pen
= Armor: part. pen
> armor: pen
2x Armor: catastrophic

That table is just plain icky


Armour... going for the mad max genre feel with welded on plates and grilles I was going to have a standard car have 3D3 armour on each side. 1D6+5 is a very likely penetrate and could be serious.

catastrophc is armour +3 not 2X

The table should be in genre tho' for the mad max gangwar type game. It would not suit a polished carwars type of game at all.

Ramming: ok

Weapons:
Wow, um, why can't I just choose my range, choose my rof/pen and then add specials?



what the heck is load?


Again I was going for real world weapons and sticking with the mad max genre. A shotgun is a shotgun.

Load is the number of turns you must miss loading. Mainly for crossbows

Gangers:
Whay can't I just pick a number?


People are not like that spaceships are


Gang design and car design:
This is really nice. simple and easy to use. but where's the square root? :)


Nailed to my wall :P

Conclusion:
obviously a rough draft and needs extensive playtesting to ensure the concepts are going to translate. I don't think I can play based on the rules I see, but I will try.


Agreed I will get some more work done tonight.

Hopefully this weekenfd will offer me the opportunity... I may have some extra time. (yay)

Don't take this wrong: I will play test it and I see the need for a car combat game as good as starmada.


I did not take it wrong.... I will try and get a better draft up before i go to bed 23:00 UK time

Ironchicken
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Postby Ironchicken » Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:12 pm

underling wrote:
Ironchicken wrote:

This has been updated.
It should now be a playable at least 'beer and pretzels' game.
No promises my ramblings make sense :shock:

I'll try to take a look at this over the next few days and add some comments. Although at a quick first glance I think I agree with some of Jim's comments.
Kevin


Updated taking your coments into consideration. Stuck all the tables on the end with 1.5":unit conversion as a quick-read sheet and made up a gang sheet and Example.

Have fun.

go0gleplex
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Postby go0gleplex » Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:15 am

Looks pretty promising Iron. :) Carry on the great work mate!
(not much good for playtesting since noone within 100+ miles to play with here...darn it. :? )
"Our past shapes us, our choices define us, our desires propel us, and those we let into our hearts give us the strength to persevere even when our dreams lay shattered behind us." - me


go0gleplex
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Postby go0gleplex » Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:00 am

Poor Dan...

guess that explains the silence, eh? ;)

That's a nice run through Jim. :)
"Our past shapes us, our choices define us, our desires propel us, and those we let into our hearts give us the strength to persevere even when our dreams lay shattered behind us." - me

Ironchicken
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Postby Ironchicken » Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:32 pm

Worked example of a fairly complex movement. Hope it makes sense.

Dan has Driver skill 6 and is in a car with handling 7 and a heavy engine.
At the beginning of the turn Dan is doing 50mph (5 units of move) and SDN2.
He moves 2 and then performs a 90° turn SDN2 and difficulty 3 total handling used is 6. Still ok with 1 handling left. He accounts the 0 drag (1-1 for high torque engine). He then moves 1 and uses a skill point to reduce turn delay from 2 (SDN) to 1. Then performs a 45° turn SDN2 and difficulty 1 for a total of 2. This takes his total handling to 8 so he must make an out of control check. Rolls a D6 and gets 3 +1 for over handling and +2 for SDN giving a total of 6. He burns a driver skill to adjust the result to 5 and skids. Roll D3 and gets a 2 moving him 2 units in the direction he was going before he turned and his speed is dropped to 40MPH from the skid at the end of the turn. That uses up the remainder of his movement. He is doing 40 and therefore can accelerate to 60MPH and does so.

Dan used 2 driver skill during the turn and all the car’s handling. He has no shot to take and so can use his 4 skill to recover 4 handling for next turn.

Next turn will start with Dan with 6 driver skill and a car with only 4 handling. He is going 60MPH.


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