Are Fighters really all that effective?

The Universal Game of Starship Combat

Re: Are Fighters really all that effective?

Postby Duskland » Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:09 am

I've been continuing my testing of fighter flights as small ships. The main problem is that you need a ship sheet for each flight. This becomes a problem in larger battles.

What do you guys think about a new trait (let's call it reliable systems) that causes threshold checks to automatically be -1. What would such a trait cost? It would have to be greater than x1 modifier (since there are two chances to get a -2 and only one chance to get a 0).
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Re: Are Fighters really all that effective?

Postby madpax » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:58 pm

I know they are not effective, but they can be very when worst comes to worst...
During a VASSAL gamme, 6 regular fighters fire on a lioght cruiser. Of 18 dice of fire, 8 are striking a 5+ shield. Only one goes through... Next impulse, another group of 6 fighter fire the same cruiser, but from the front and with directionnal defense, they have 12 dice. Only 3 hits... and worst, two are blocked by the 5+ shield. 30 dice and 2 damages where on average I would have 10 hits meaning at least 6 damage...
I know some pilots who are going to be shot down when they come back to the carrier...

Marc
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Re: Are Fighters really all that effective?

Postby BeowulfJB » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:09 pm

We played another game of Starmada here in Jacksonville. We think we have fixed Fighters & drones by giving them the equalivant of these weapon traits: {Acr,Acr,Dfs}, for the same CR & SU Cost. That is, they hit on 3+ and roll twice as many dice as they would in the rules. A new player friend of ours played a CV that had 15 fast, tough fighter-flights and also launched drones. It was escorted by two frigates. It was a brutal fight, but we were able to win by shooting down the fighters after losing two ships and then destroying the drone launching CV. Boy did it carry lots of drones! 0ur changes have made fighters formitable & worth the cost, but not excessively powerful. We think that they are balanced. I have designed a CR=450 CVL with 10 flights of strong fighters, and a CV with 20 strong fighters that has a CR=900. It will be fun to try them.
Some of my friends don't have any short-ranged AA type weapons on their ships... :twisted:
Darn the Fusion Torpedoes; full speed ahead!
Victory is blasting hostile ships to space junk before they blast you into space junk...
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Re: Are Fighters really all that effective?

Postby OldnGrey » Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:10 am

madpax wrote: Of 18 dice of fire, 8 are striking a 5+ shield. Only one goes through... Marc

SEVEN 5 or 6 saves out of a throw of eight dice!!!!

Fighters are not effective against those dice..... where can I buy some? :lol:

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Re: Are Fighters really all that effective?

Postby PSYCO829 » Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:10 am

I like your fighter fix, and I'm glad fighters and drones don't shoot automatically before everyone else does anymore (that was evil).
We'll have to try it when you come back down here.
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Re: Are Fighters really all that effective?

Postby BeowulfJB » Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:33 am

Sounds like a plan
Darn the Fusion Torpedoes; full speed ahead!
Victory is blasting hostile ships to space junk before they blast you into space junk...
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Re: Are Fighters really all that effective?

Postby murtalianconfederacy » Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:27 am

Just curious...

Is there still the same problem for fighters in simultaneous play? I've noticed that the main source of the 'fighters are not worth it' argument seems to be from those that use the initiative system, and that could be skewing the results.

When I eventually get round to playing a game or two (ha, ha) I'm going to be using simultaneous play.
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Re: Are Fighters really all that effective?

Postby BeowulfJB » Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:02 pm

What we do with fighters is allow all of the fighters in a hex (up to six are allowed) to fire just as a ship would during the owning players time to fire a ship. The player can hve the hex of fighters fire instead of firing a ship. This makes manuevering them important. This has worked well. It makes drones significant because once they attack, there is no opportunity to fire at them and weaken their number the way that fighters can be fired at with the next turn in mind.

Suncoast Comics & Games here in Jacksonville has changed owners and is now called the Friendly Local Gaming Store. The store's Grand Opening is today and I will be running Starmada @ 1pm. I am hoping to have a game with four players, with c3000 points per side.
Cheers
Darn the Fusion Torpedoes; full speed ahead!
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Re: Are Fighters really all that effective?

Postby madpax » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:38 pm

BeowulfJB wrote:We played another game of Starmada here in Jacksonville. We think we have fixed Fighters & drones by giving them the equalivant of these weapon traits: {Acr,Acr,Dfs}, for the same CR & SU Cost.

I do not understand. You gave the Acr trait twice?
As Acr means a hit on 4 also (and not giving a +1 to AD), how it is useful?

That is, they hit on 3+ and roll twice as many dice as they would in the rules.

Aside for the 3+, giving Dfs is curious as there s no short of long range fighters. Hence, Dfs doesn't apply to them.

I have designed a CR=450 CVL with 10 flights of strong fighters, and a CV with 20 strong fighters that has a CR=900. It will be fun to try them.

My problem with fighters is not that they are undereffective, but that they are very expensive AND unereffective.
If a DN costs about 500 points, why should a CV the same but replacing heavy weapons by fighters costs twice its CR?
The problem will be that,with me, expensive ships will never be deployed.
So unless the figher cost isn't drastically reduced, it will thanks but no thanks. Currently, hey are simulated by seekers. Too bad, I liked the fighters acting as fighters.

Marc
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Re: Are Fighters really all that effective?

Postby madpax » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:43 pm

BeowulfJB wrote:What we do with fighters is allow all of the fighters in a hex (up to six are allowed) to fire just as a ship would during the owning players time to fire a ship.


Those are the rules, no?
The player can hve the hex of fighters fire instead of firing a ship. This makes manuevering them important. This has worked well. It makes drones significant because once they attack, there is no opportunity to fire at them and weaken their number the way that fighters can be fired at with the next turn in mind.

I tried drones once and they didn't seem effective. Just having to fire small numbers of them each turn isn't very interesting. Maybe I overlook something.

Marc
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