questions about Aces at dawn

Aerial combat during the Great War
pilum
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questions about Aces at dawn

Postby pilum » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:58 pm

hello everybody.
I live in franc, so excuse my english.
I have some questions because i've just bought this game yesterday.

1) What happens when two (or more) planes are in the same hex ? Or is it prohibited ?

2) About the quirk "cannon" : what is the range when you fire with a cannon ?

3) I don't understand the quirk "decreased turn radius (left)" for the sopwith camel. Who can explain this CLEARLY ?.

4) Page 5 of the rules : you must read 5 mp for the second example (and not 4mp) : am I right ?

5) Page 5 of the rules : you must read 3 mp for the third example (and not 4mp) : am I right ?

6) Page 6 of the rules : there is an error about the speed when an aircraft make a dive : "...and may increase speed by 1/2 its maximum speed rating". Am I right ?

7) Page 6 about climb. I don't understand this sentence : "the plane must reduce his speed by 1 for each altitude band changed". What is a SPEED for a plane ?

8) About dive (read on the manoeuver card "dive"). I don't understand this sentence : "the plane may increase speed by 1 for each altitude band changed". What is a SPEED for a plane ?

9) Page 8 of the rules : the target number is 1 + 4 + 1 = 6 (and not 1 + 4 + 2), because the defense rating for a dive is +1 (and not +2) : am I right ?

Thanks

jimbeau
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Re: questions about Aces at dawn

Postby jimbeau » Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:32 am

Welcome!

pilum wrote:1) What happens when two (or more) planes are in the same hex ? Or is it prohibited ?

They cannot fire on each other
pilum wrote:2) About the quirk "cannon" : what is the range when you fire with a cannon ?

Dang! missed that one. Cannon range is 1 hex
pilum wrote:3) I don't understand the quirk "decreased turn radius (left)" for the sopwith camel. Who can explain this CLEARLY ?.

The Aerodrome can: http://www.theaerodrome.com/aircraft/gb ... _camel.php Basically the rotary engine had sooo much power and torque that the plane tended to turn on it's own.
pilum wrote:4) Page 5 of the rules : you must read 5 mp for the second example (and not 4mp) : am I right ?

pilum wrote:5) Page 5 of the rules : you must read 3 mp for the third example (and not 4mp) : am I right ?

Yup, good catch, both times
pilum wrote:6) Page 6 of the rules : there is an error about the speed when an aircraft make a dive : "...and may increase speed by 1/2 its maximum speed rating". Am I right ?

Yes, wow, this has been out for HOW long? Where is my editor???
pilum wrote:7) Page 6 about climb. I don't understand this sentence : "the plane must reduce his speed by 1 for each altitude band changed". What is a SPEED for a plane ?
8) About dive (read on the manoeuver card "dive"). I don't understand this sentence : "the plane may increase speed by 1 for each altitude band changed". What is a SPEED for a plane ?

SPEED is the distance that the plane moved that phase, i.e. if the plane moved 4 hexes and performed a 3range band dive (i.e. moved from Range band 6 to Range Band 3, the player has the OPTION of increasing the distance moved by 3 hexes. Could have been better phrased, sorry.
pilum wrote:9) Page 8 of the rules : the target number is 1 + 4 + 1 = 6 (and not 1 + 4 + 2), because the defense rating for a dive is +1 (and not +2) : am I right ?

Yes, you are right.
pilum wrote:Thanks

Any Time

pilum
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Re: questions about Aces at dawn

Postby pilum » Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:31 pm

thank you for your quick reply !

Some other remarks :

1) the link about the 'pdf faq" doesn't work.

2) In my wargame club we don't use the "banking rules". For us it si useless complexity. We just want simple rules which allows us to use our magnificent aircrafts from the game "wings of war".

3) About initiative. The plane with the bigger initiative moves AFTER. Am I right ?

4) About tailing. In our wargame club we added this house rule : when an aircraft X is tailing an enemy aircraft Z at the beginning of the subphase "initiative", then this aircraft X receives +3 for initiative dice roll. What do you think of this ?

jimbeau
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Re: questions about Aces at dawn

Postby jimbeau » Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:43 am

You are welcome.

1) I will bring up the FAQ issue with the powers that be... Dan?

2) I won't argue about complexity, but there are some interesting things that happen when you put banking in. I'd say, if you're thinking it's complex, then you may be misinterpreting the rules (or they're unclear).

Essentially, you decide at the end of the phase which way you bank, you don't need to decide how much you bank or anything, but just indicate (with a red or black die, or some other indicator for the WoW planes, which direction you're leaning. That way you are forced to make a decision about where you think your opponent is going to be before he moves.

The issue with removing banking is that you take out a lot of the subtleties of the game (and there aren't too many subtleties to be honest) So I'd say play a few times more with the banking and see what the difference is.

3) Yes, lower initiative is better.

4) that's a great idea, actually, but I'd say if X is tailing Z, then Z gets an add into the init roll, or subtract from the X roll. either way. The problem with your idea is that X gets an advantage over ALL planes.

I'm glad you're playing, it makes us feel good when people play our games, maybe if you come to origins, we can get together and play a couple of games.

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Re: questions about Aces at dawn

Postby mj12games » Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:16 pm

jimbeau wrote:1) I will bring up the FAQ issue with the powers that be... Dan?


I'm sorry ... but what FAQ?
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pilum
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Re: questions about Aces at dawn

Postby pilum » Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:21 pm

1) Ok ! you're wright : "Banking" is interesting because the enemy pilot can see where you want to go in the next turn.
But what is the interest of "180° banking" ? .
So we decided to keep banking, but only "port banking" and "starboard banking" : we keep "banking" only to show where the pilot want to go.

2) The game "Aces at dawn" uses "manoeuver card" and "initiative". What is the interest to use BOTH ?

Two examples :
a) In the game "Wings of war" : they ONLY use "manoeuver card". If you tail an enemy pilot, he must show his manoeuver card, and you can change your manoeuver card.

b) In the game "Knight in the sky, WW1" (variant from "hunters in the sky, WW2") : they ONLY use "initiative". If you tail an enemy pilot you gain the initiative and you play AFTER him.

So, in our club, we only use initiative (Idlers whom we are, we have NO courage to cut the manoeuver cards...). And if you tail an enemy pilot you have +3 on initiative rolls. Ok the wrong thing is that you get an advantage over ALL planes.
So this is the complete rule : if you tail an enemy pilot you have +3 on initiative rolls, but you can only fire at this enemy pilot. If you don't use the "+3 modifier", you can fire at what you want.

3) About the quirk "decreased turn radius (left)" : can you explain clearly how it WORKS in the GAME ?

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Re: questions about Aces at dawn

Postby jimbeau » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:27 pm

cricket wrote:
jimbeau wrote:1) I will bring up the FAQ issue with the powers that be... Dan?


I'm sorry ... but what FAQ?


The one that's in this link viewtopic.php?f=25&t=395
or http://www.mj12games.com/faq

:D

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Re: questions about Aces at dawn

Postby jimbeau » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:33 pm

pilum wrote:1) Ok ! you're wright : "Banking" is interesting because the enemy pilot can see where you want to go in the next turn.
But what is the interest of "180° banking" ? .
So we decided to keep banking, but only "port banking" and "starboard banking" : we keep "banking" only to show where the pilot want to go.

right, so the next time he moves you don't know what he's going to do, but you know which direction he's going to go.

pilum wrote:2) The game "Aces at dawn" uses "manoeuver card" and "initiative". What is the interest to use BOTH ?

Cause it's cooler that way. :) see below...
pilum wrote:Two examples :
a) In the game "Wings of war" : they ONLY use "manoeuver card". If you tail an enemy pilot, he must show his manoeuver card, and you can change your manoeuver card.

b) In the game "Knight in the sky, WW1" (variant from "hunters in the sky, WW2") : they ONLY use "initiative". If you tail an enemy pilot you gain the initiative and you play AFTER him.


The maneuver cards require that you choose what you're going to do well before you do it and contain the essence of the game. it's not about being able to shoot your enemy down before he shoots you down, but rather, it's about being somewhere where you can shoot your enemy down before he shoots you down.

pilum wrote:
So, in our club, we only use initiative (Idlers whom we are, we have NO courage to cut the manoeuver cards...). And if you tail an enemy pilot you have +3 on initiative rolls. Ok the wrong thing is that you get an advantage over ALL planes.
So this is the complete rule : if you tail an enemy pilot you have +3 on initiative rolls, but you can only fire at this enemy pilot. If you don't use the "+3 modifier", you can fire at what you want.

Admittedly, I like the +3 modifier, but needs some playtest to determine if it's overpowering. also, the way you describe it seems to indicate it's a to hit modifier as well as an initiative modifier.
pilum wrote:3) About the quirk "decreased turn radius (left)" : can you explain clearly how it WORKS in the GAME ?

[/quote]

It provides a slightly faster turn to the left, but if you don't use the maneuver cards, it's irrelevant.

however, here's what it would allow...

Both the Sopwith Camel and the Fokker DR I have a Turn Class of "B"...

They both have a max movement of 5 hexes

They both may play a fast turn card and turn completely around during their turn, however, if the Sopwith Camel is banked to the left, it may make the turn at any point in the phase (like before it moves) instead of halfway through it's movement.

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Re: questions about Aces at dawn

Postby mj12games » Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:36 pm

jimbeau wrote:The one that's in this link viewtopic.php?f=25&t=395
or http://www.mj12games.com/faq


Umm... as far as I can see, that never existed... ?
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Re: questions about Aces at dawn

Postby pilum » Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:48 pm

1) OK this week-end we'll use the manoeuver cards.
This is how we understand the subtleties in "Aces at dawn" :
a) When a pilot chooses his cards in phase 1 "card selection phase" : the choice is made according to the previous enemy maneuvers (and the previous banking !)
b) Now the question is : what is the interest of initiative, because the cards are ALREADY choosen in the previous sub-phase ?
The answer is : when you play after an enemy pilot, you can choose your banking after him.
If he turns to the left, you turn to the left... If he turns to the right, you turn to the right...
So you can more easily choose your maneuver cards in the next turns.

2) House rule : the +3 on the initiative rolls is only for initiative. NOT for hit.

3) In the subphase "combat" : does initiative play a role ? Or all fire are simultaneous ?

4) Bombing : how many dice ? this is not indicated in the bombers data card .

5) The pdf faq doesn't work...

Thanks


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